Episode 90: How Immigration Helped Build Calgary’s Most Beloved Wine Bar with Phoebe Fung

[00:00:00] Thank you so much for joining Evelyn Ackah's Ask ImmigrationLawyer podcast. I'm here today with my friend and client, Phoebe Fung. Phoebe is the founder of Vin Room, a wine bar with three locations here in Calgary. She has a VIN room at the airport and it is the only locally owned and operated restaurant at the Calgary International Airport, and they won the best airport wine bar at the 2019 Global Food and Beverage Awards.

Phoebe has a Bachelor's of Commerce degree and an MBA from Queens University, and she spent 15 years in the oil and gas industry before starting Vin Room in 2008 because of her love for food and wine. Phoebe's first passion is her four-legged pooch. Dom put him up, I wanna see him. There he is. He was the driving force behind Vin Room being the first restaurant in Calgary to have a dog friendly patio.

She's passionate about promoting a dog friendly [00:01:00] culture, and she spends her spare time with her pooch Dom, who also volunteers as a PAL'S pet therapy dog at the Calgary Airport, and a pre-board pals I've seen you guys at the airport. Welcome, Phoebe. Thank you Evelyn. Thanks so much for coming and bringing Dom.

He's such a sweetie. Um, so for those of you who don't know, I love wine too, and I love Vin Room. And when I first started my firm in 2010, um, the first location was a couple blocks from Vin Room. So we would spend a lot of time there eating and drinking and meeting, and I got to know Phoebe, and then over time she became a client.

So, let's get started. Tell us about your background in the oil and gas industry. What inspired you to make this transition? It's a big transition from oil and gas to wine and food. I. Well, thanks, Evelyn. I'm actually an accidental restaurateur. Uh, in my thirties I decided to take, uh, a year off and at that time they called it gap year.

Yep. And I just wanted to find something and [00:02:00] build something. And my plan was, I'll build, I'll go back to work. Well, I walked along fourth Street, found this building and decided I was gonna open a wine bar. Next thing you know, I decided, I. Really enjoyed wine more than I enjoyed oil and gas. Mm-hmm. And that's, mm-hmm.

Yeah. That's incredible. That's a huge transition. Like so, you know, I don't know the logistics. I know running a business, you have partners and all of that. How did you get people caught up in the passion? You have to invest in something from the ground up. Well, you know, despite that fact that I have 15 years in oil and gas, when you ask banks for money to build a restaurant with no experience in restaurants, it's, it's kind of important to have other investors.

And so beyond friends and family, you wanna have people who will help you out and have skills that you don't have. Mm-hmm. I've got plumbers, I've got trades, I've got lawyers who are all minority shareholders. Mm-hmm. Uh, silent shareholders. But the good thing about that is I have access to a wider [00:03:00] network than, than I need at the moment for the restaurant, but it helps me, I.

That's fabulous. I think it's a great idea. So Vin room is a staple in Calgary's scene, um, restaurant scene, especially because of the dog friendly patios. Where did that vision come from? So you've gone from oil and gas, then you open restaurant, and then you open another restaurant, the one up in Aspen.

And then you opened the Calgary airport. Where did that evolution come through for you be besides just one. So let's first talk about the expansion, had that all occurred, and then the patio dog friendly. You were the first one in Calgary, I think, to get that approval right. Yes. Well, you know, everything I do is really about my passion, which is first I love dogs.

Yes. And I found that I couldn't take my dog anywhere. So that's what started it off, was to go look for a place where I could bring my dog and, and spend time with [00:04:00] him. Mm-hmm. So that, that's why we applied and we were the first in Calgary to be dog friendly on our patios. And in fact, all three locations have it.

Wow. And if you dine with your dog, uh, we actually have a three course menu for the dog, Ecco of course. And of course, uh, couches for your dog to lounge in if he doesn't wanna be on your lap, like my dog likes to be. So in the pa, on the patios? Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. But the one, so when you say three locations, that's not the airport location, is it?

A lot of people travel with their dogs and we actually have a dog friendly in terminal patio. Oh, I didn't know that. With couches and paw echo and snacks for your dog. I had no idea. So when you did that, I mean, how did the public receive that? You know, especially we all love our dogs when you have them and they're just wonderful companions, but how has that helped your business?

Being able to also have people bring their, their [00:05:00] furry pets with them? Well, pets are part of your family. Right. Whether it's a dog or a cat or whatever. And so it, it was really good for us because it was overwhelmingly positive. Mm-hmm. People love to dine with their dogs and they look forward to our, you know, patio days and they look forward to our pooches and Prosecco and even our dog parties.

We actually have dog parties. Oh my God. I remember you had a. Party for Dom when you turned 14. And my family went, unfortunately I was traveling for business, but it was so much fun. I heard all about it. Um, let's talk about Covid because as business owners, you know, that's been a journey we've all had to move through and endure.

How did you pivot? How did Vin Room get through the struggle of Covid? Uh, I call those the lost chairs. I think everybody kind of. Grew a little older with that. Yes. We got more gray hair. Well, you know, in the, in the airport we were, uh, [00:06:00] you know, we were closed within 48 hours, uh, everywhere, including the airport.

And so the thing is, uh, you, when you have a, most of my staff are full-time. Yeah, me. And so we kind of came out and said, look, whoever wants a job, you can stay with us. We'll figure it out. So in 48 hours, we took all of the staff and we actually built an online business. So we pivoted and, and gave an online business, and we did catering and delivery for people who are having virtual town halls at home.

I mean, we even delivered food to Red Deer of all places. My, you know, my team had a really good time with it. I mean, new Year's Eve, they were all dressing up in for their deliveries, you know, we enjoyed it too. Mm-hmm. So I think that the thing is, COVID is one of these things. You are always gonna have something that you're thrown at.

Yeah. To look at you and you just gotta learn how to adapt. And yes, we made mistakes, but we had a little bit of fun along the way, and [00:07:00] most of my staff actually stayed with me after Covid. Mm-hmm. I'm very thankful for that. Yeah. Well, I know you're an incredible employer, believe me. And because we've worked together for so many years, um, I mean, you went through the flood as well, so I look to you as my mentor because I know that when you deal with ups and downs, you know how you get through them.

You've managed to do that very successfully over the years, and so really inspiring to me. Um, so let's talk about your work as an employer in terms of working with us. Um. Why did you feel the need to start looking for

immigration as a means to help your business and to help these new immigrants? Okay.

Uh, it's a great question. So we have over 70 full-time, uh, employees among the locations. So we're still a very small business. But as you know, uh, McDonald's, uh, I actually heard a, a great chat, uh, but from McDonald's, McDonald's hires a hundred thousand people a year [00:08:00] in Canada. 65% of those are first jobs.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So they actually are the feeder pool to other restaurants and other, well, other restaurants and other chains. Yeah. And the challenge with us is we don't have that ability to fulfill all of our employment needs. So I think it was in 2010 actually, it was your first case rules. Mm-hmm. You've helped us.

Uh, gosh, I think I'm, I'm almost at, uh. To over 18 staff. Mm-hmm. And you've provided people with their first jobs from other countries and they've progressed to be permanent residents and they progressed to be Canadian citizens. Yay. The citizens. And that's so exciting for me too. Right. So I think you have to have a balance, uh, restaurants, like any business, it's an ecosystem.

You have to have new employees, you have to have. People who are from other countries, you have to have Canadians, and you've been able to help us fill that gap. [00:09:00] Yeah. No, we've, it's been our pleasure and I know, um, the people that you've brought on, they've all been so grateful, you know, because you are a great employer.

I mean, when I talk about being a great employer, when you hire foreign workers, most employers don't meet them at the airport with winter coats. Don't find them a place to live. Don't help them find furniture. Don't, you know, create a community for them. And so I think that is why you release. Stand out, you know, Phoebe, in terms of all the clients I work with, especially being a small business where you don't have a whole HR relocation type of business, you pro, you provide that and, and I think it makes people very, very loyal because they feel you care beyond them just being an employee.

You care about their life and their family. And so I think that's really helped you because you've retained a number of those people that have come through over the years to be successful, permanent residents and citizens. Um, so when you're working with, with the local business, 'cause like you, I, I like to work with local businesses.

What kind [00:10:00] of expertise are you looking for when you're engaging, you know, a vendor when you're looking locally for whether it's a plumber or a lawyer or HR benefits provider, what are those things that. Those values that work for you that you want to see. No, it's a great question. I, we always love working with local, uh, vendors and we, we look at it as partners.

So, you know, values are very important partnership, uh, just like we have with you. But you have to care. You can't change that. I mean, ultimately, a lot of decisions we make day to day decisions isn't actually about the bottom line. You know, and so you have to look at it as this is the long game we have to care and we may make mistakes along the way, but that, that's what we're looking for.

Yeah. Somebody who cares, whose team cares. I mean, you know, and I appreciate your, your, your partnership, but more importantly, your whole team cares. Mm-hmm. And I can reach out to any one of them, just like, uh, you [00:11:00] can with my team. Yes. And they will, they have that. Care and concern for their ultimate client, which is really, we're bringing in people who have never been to this country often.

Mm-hmm. Or you're helping people who have been here for years and now they're taking their next step to a pr, to a Canadian citizenship. And I always recall you had one file you worked on with us for almost eight years. My longest files. And, and you know, I, he crossed the border and, uh, I was with him and you were on, you were on the call to make sure we had no issues.

That is above and beyond, and you can't, you know, you can't find that unless you find somebody who cares. We definitely care. I mean, I know your, your, your people. I love whenever we travel as a family and we go to VIN room to have our breakfast if we're going somewhere international and you know, they all know us and they're all very, you know, and it's like, oh, Evelyn's here with her [00:12:00] family and, and they care that we have a great experience every single time.

And I feel like it really makes the airport experience, especially that location. A much easier, you know, traveling is not as fun as it used to be. So once you get through security, you wanna run to VIN room and get some wine or whatever it is, um, and have breakfast and lunch or dinner. So listen, what advice would you give successful business women like yourself?

Um. Or people who are starting new entrepreneurship opportunities, what advice would you give them when they're looking to leap into opening their own business? Any kind of tricks of the trade or, you know, war wounds that you've experienced that you wanna talk about? I. Two things. I think one would be surround yourself with a great network.

I mean, I'm lucky, uh, to have surrounded myself with a great network, uh, both male and female course and entrepreneurs in large companies. And I think that's very important because you, that informal mentorship is very important. A second thing is [00:13:00] realize that your time is really not your own when you're an entrepreneur.

Entrepreneurs don't get days off, they get hours off. And ultimately bus our businesses. They're like children who never grow up. They will always need us. Mm-hmm. So just remember that and just as long as you have that support on the home front. Yes. And you are mentally prepared for that. I think that's very important.

That's good advice, Phoebe, but how have you, I mean, what I love is you go on cruises, you go on vacation. How have you structured your life so that you don't get burnt out and that you do find some boundaries and balance because you know, I've been doing my business now 15 years and that's something I'm really still working on.

Is carving out that time to make sure I can turn off. So how have you structured your life to make that work for you? My team would say I never turn off, but I'm a big fan of, you can always make more money. You can't make more time. Yes. And you know, I'm not young anymore, so it's very important to me that I spend the family time.

Yes. [00:14:00] And my dad actually has me on a performance, uh, contract that every year he wants three or four trips a year together. I love it. Yeah, I love it. And he's, and he's 80 in his eighties, so I don't want to, uh, you know, not lose that. But I think the really important thing is establish, uh, and I'm lucky this way, I've got several managers who've been with me for over a decade.

Mm-hmm. So they can handle most everything. I think they just email me just to, uh, to, to say hi, really. Mm-hmm. But, uh, that's the thing is if you have some really key staff around you who you can trust to manage things, then yeah. That's really important and you have to, you have to carve out time, you have to compartmentalize, and you gotta carve out time.

I mean, where I lose sleep is over employees and their personal issues. We're not, we're not surgeons. We're not gonna kill anybody on a bad knock on wood, but you know, that's the thing we, we have to worry about is carve out time. Yeah. I think it's [00:15:00] important. I mean, we recently went to, went on a family trip for spring break.

We brought my mom and more and more we're bringing her, as you know, she's in her seventies and, and I think I love that. Every time you'd be like, I'm on a cruise with my dad. I'm gone. And I think, and even then, when you're gone, you're still accessible, which is the challenge of being an entrepreneur.

We're never. Ever really truly disconnected. Um, though some of it is, I think by choice, don't you think you love what you do, you wanna know it's all okay, and then you can enjoy your vacation. Um, so what's ahead for Vin room? I mean, do you think you're gonna open more locations? Are you happy with the three?

And you also have the wine store, so that's. Really? Right. Actually, I sold the wine started J Oh, did you? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Great. Partner next to us at Vin Room West, which is, uh, fantastic. Yeah. So for rum, we like to grow in airports. Okay. Uh, for us, we're the local, the only locally owned and operated, uh, restaurant in the Calgary airport right now.

Yes. [00:16:00] So we're, we're very lucky. We feel great about that because then we can, we are connected to the community. Mm-hmm. And what drives our decisions is really about what's best for the guest Yes. And for our community that, that we're in. So we would love the opportunity to grow in another Canadian airport.

Wow. Edmonton. Vancouver, Toronto. Anyone who will take us and give us a chance? Well, I hope they're all gonna be listening to this podcast and finding a way to grow with you that I think that's a wonderful idea. Wonderful, wonderful one. Um, so can you tell us, you know, you and I have worked together. I would love to hear you explain kind of the process in your words as a client.

Let's say we're doing an LMIA, 'cause I want to talk about the change in the law because it's a real thing. What is that experience like for you on your end? Because the labor market impact assessment process, as you know, and I'm just explaining, so the people listening know, is where the employer has to [00:17:00] sponsor.

They have to advertise, they have to say they can't find a Canadian that is applied or that's qualified or interested in the job or that meets the criteria. And then you go forward and hire somebody that's offshore to come in, or that's already here that needs that sponsorship. So for you as an employer, what does that experience look like as a client of eco law, I.

And, you know, and of course we would all love to hire, uh, with, from within Canada and find a Canadian filling the role. But the challenge is that there are some positions that we just cannot find Canadians for. Mm-hmm. And I think

the biggest thing is that you, your team is. They're great in handholding from helping us design the ad to find the best candidate, whether it is a Canadian or not.

Uh, your team is very good at helping us design the, from the ad to what we have to prepare to put together, uh, for, you know, tracking who the resumes that come in, the interviews that we do, tracking that process and creating [00:18:00] templates for us so that we don't have to do it on our own. And I would say the third is just.

Helping us get all the material together that we need to in order to fulfill that role with the best possible candidate. Yeah. And the, the team approach that you have means that, you know, I don't have to always contact you, Evelyn. You have a team that's more than capable of doing it, and you're overseeing everything to make sure it is done properly and that we are not wasting time submitting applications that have errors in it.

And no refusals. We don't want that. I just think about the last one. Oh my God. So we're talking about the change in the law and the change in the. The perception right now politically, whether it's coming from down south that's affecting Canadian immigration, but recently, just late last year, the government, as you know, changed the labor market impact process for low wage, which they consider anything under $35 an hour, which is a lot of service jobs, obviously, and in the restaurant [00:19:00] industry.

Um, and that is gonna definitely affect the ability for restaurants like yourselves to, to utilize the temporary foreign worker program. What are your thoughts about this? I know that behind the scenes you're actively trying to advocate and, and lobby, um, through the restaurant industry, but what are your thoughts in this terms of the short-term and long-term effects of this?

I think you, I think there's a challenge, and this is my personal opinion. Yeah, there is, there are a lot of reports out there that show there is going to be a labor gap in this, in this industry, and it's just a fact of life. You know, a lot of people are taking, you know, the, my McDonald's job example. They might take the job at McDonald's while they're in high school or university, but then they're really going to school to do other things.

So we will always have a gap where the first, that, you know, the, there are jobs in that industry that need to be filled and they can't be filled with available Canadians. Mm-hmm. So my, my thing here is that not [00:20:00] all industries are the same. Uh, I think we, I would encourage the, uh, government, any government to take a look at where can we fulfill these services for Canadians.

Yeah. Uh, nobody likes to stand in line for half an hour for their coffee in the morning because there's a shortage of workers. Yeah. And nobody wants to wait half an hour for their first drink or their meal at a restaurant. So I would say that we have to look at certain industries and come up with a fit for purpose solution for that industry.

I agree with you. I mean, it's, it's gonna be challenging. We've got other clients in your industry that are already feeling the effects of it, um, and working harder and harder to recruit. But at the end of the day, if people don't wanna do those jobs or they're not skilled enough to, you know, be professional, um, servers that have.

Decades of experience that for a higher end restaurant like yourself, it's harder to, to find those people. So, um, let me ask you about your [00:21:00] volunteering. I mean, tell me about Dom. How did you get involved with him volunteering, um, at the different places you volunteer? Well, well actually they, they contacted us through DOM'S Instagram six years ago.

So one of my managers started an Instagram for Dom, and now I'm answering his E Dom's emails too. Oh my God. Dom at Dom, the som palm. Yeah. So yeah, he might be my most popular employee. Oh my God. Yeah. So, so they reached out to you? Yeah. So Dom's been volunteering as a PAL'S pet Therapy pet Yeah. Um, for the last six years.

And, you know, it's one of the most rewarding, uh, experiences I have with my dog. 'cause I actually get to spend time with him. Mm-hmm. And he, and my husband does that too with him. Mm-hmm. But we go to hospitals, we. Occasionally go to hospices. We volunteer at the airport and you know, the dog does all the work.

We're really just a [00:22:00] chauffeur. Oh, I, it's wonderful. I mean, I know when I'm traveling, you know, it's quite stressful as you know, whether you're business travel or family travel, to be able to get through or you're long lines and to see this adorable dog coming. It just immediately just brings everybody's heart rate down.

You know, it's quite incredible the effect of a dog when people are at that heightened level of stress to feel compassion and warmth, um, in the midst of it all. So I think you're doing incredible work. Um, I'm really excited to see what the next stage of Vin Room will be the next iteration. The next airport.

Um, I know you've won so many awards and you haven't been involved as well as I have with Alberta women entrepreneurs, and you mentor so many people.

What's next for you? Are you ever gonna retire? Have you ever gonna slow down? Huh? You know, we, entrepreneurs don't know how to do that. Uh, I'm, I'm lucky enough to have, have joined [00:23:00] the Board of Restaurants Canada, right.

As a volunteer board member. So, you know, that Will, and Restaurants, Canada is such a great organization because they represent 30,000 restaurants across the country. But it just, you know, it helps with the advocacy for our, for our industry. And I think there are many things that, that this industry does provide, uh, to.

Canadians. Yeah. And I think that's just really important how we can help with that. And I, I'll continue volunteering, uh, with Dom, which I love to do. And, and being a, being a adoptive mom to all your staff and all your foreign workers and helping them. Get settled and supported. I mean, I can't, I can't imagine a more supportive employer for real.

You, you definitely, I have, I have wonderful clients as you know, but I have a few like yourselves that are just above and, and above and above that will do anything for their people to help them move through life. And I think. When you give such good energy out and you give that support, it comes [00:24:00] back to you.

And so I, I know that we love Vin Room as a firm, as my family, as myself, I love it. But I also want people to know that when you support a restaurant like VIN Room, um, you're supporting a local business and you're also supporting local employees and foreign workers who are gonna become permanent residents soon.

So I wanna thank you so much, Phoebe. Is there anything else you wanna share with us before we wrap up our podcast? No, I would abs continue doing what you're doing, Evelyn. I mean, if I look back and the number of Canadians you've brought in from other countries who are now contributing members to Canada, uh, you know, that for me is really what's important.

At the end of the day, I. Yes, we provide a guest experience, but what's important to me is that we actually can provide new lives for people. Mm-hmm. And we make mistakes along the way on certainly, uh, you know, everyone calls at work, but they keep doing what you're doing and you, and a special thanks to you and your team.

[00:25:00] Oh, thank you so much, Phoebe. We could not do this without the incredible team. It's been a, a journey as you know, u

so grateful that we've had such loyal clients like you and the VIN Room and all your employees that support us. And, um, I'm looking forward to seeing the next iteration of Vin Room at an airport near you soon.

Thank you so much for joining us on the Ask Canada Immigration Lawyer podcast. We're gonna wrap up now. Thank you. Thank you